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How's The Game?
Hello Havenites!
This is a post for you to give feedback on the game itself, not on other player's (that's what the HMD is for). This includes the mod team itself, the events, the mechanics of the game on an OOC side, and so on. This can be on anything from things that we are doing right, to things you would like to see changed. We encourage an open discourse of ideas, so please feel free to discuss things with other players as well as just leaving your own ideas here for the mods to see.
-> Please try to be specific in your comments!
-> Anonymous is allowed.
-> Rudeness or insults will not be tolerated, just as on the HMD. People may have differing opinions, and that's fine, as long as it's discussed civilly.
Please note that requesting a change on this post does not automatically mean it will go into effect. If any changes or concerns are reasonable and could be workable, they will be gathered together into one post and put to a game-wide vote to make sure that the interests of the game as a majority are being followed. If an idea or change would not be workable, then I will do my utmost to explain why without just dismissing it out of hand.
And because one of the issues that has already been brought up is a burn out on the intensity of the events, allow me to reassure you that the next event is definitely low key. This is as it focuses more on the introduction of plot points that will become relevant down the line, rather than an immediate horror that month.
Thank you!
This is a post for you to give feedback on the game itself, not on other player's (that's what the HMD is for). This includes the mod team itself, the events, the mechanics of the game on an OOC side, and so on. This can be on anything from things that we are doing right, to things you would like to see changed. We encourage an open discourse of ideas, so please feel free to discuss things with other players as well as just leaving your own ideas here for the mods to see.
-> Please try to be specific in your comments!
-> Anonymous is allowed.
-> Rudeness or insults will not be tolerated, just as on the HMD. People may have differing opinions, and that's fine, as long as it's discussed civilly.
Please note that requesting a change on this post does not automatically mean it will go into effect. If any changes or concerns are reasonable and could be workable, they will be gathered together into one post and put to a game-wide vote to make sure that the interests of the game as a majority are being followed. If an idea or change would not be workable, then I will do my utmost to explain why without just dismissing it out of hand.
And because one of the issues that has already been brought up is a burn out on the intensity of the events, allow me to reassure you that the next event is definitely low key. This is as it focuses more on the introduction of plot points that will become relevant down the line, rather than an immediate horror that month.
Thank you!
oh god this is so long i'm sorry
Well obviously I LOVE Haven to pieces. It's the most well-organized game I've ever played in. Everything about it OOCly makes me really happy - How the events are run, how apps are processed, how FAQ questions and plot requests are handled, the plurk atmosphere. It's really a lot of fun, and I really really love it all. I love that there's a definite plot and different potential endgames, and it's always fun to watch things move forward, as far as the NPC interactions and the environment changes.
One of my favorite events was the garden. It added a new environment completely different from everything prior, the variety in the plants gave people a lot to choose from for OTAs, the fresh fruit was a big incentive for characters to go after, and the Judy/computer/Jessica thing made everyone interested in the NPC-based plot want to get involved. I feel like this was a really well-crafted event, and I'm glad the garden's still around... But I wish the garden had gotten nerfed with the housing spiral move, the way old Warcraft dungeons do. I want characters to be able to go there any time and get fruit or just hang out without being depowered and likely to die. It's great that we got to keep it in the game after the event was over, but what's the point of it being there when it's such a hazard that no one wants to bother? Make it a nice date area instead.
Cecil thinks it is already, probable death included, but his opinion doesn't count.On a more critical note, I don't think "less intense" events is the best answer to burn out. I think characters positively affecting the plot, even if it's intense and horrific in the process, or else characters getting rewarded periodically for no reason
I'm not saying beach episode but i'm totally saying beach episode, would be better for burn out than events where everyone is doing nothing, listening to Yao people talk onthe radiothe phone network, and sitting around waiting for something to happen next month. That's depressing, not a break. You know what I mean? Maybe something that's accidentally fun.beach episode- a glitch in Yao's plans, the way the garden was. ...And then go back to the plot-heavy horror the following month. It'll make the horror that much more horrific if characters aren't expecting it, right?Personally, what I'd like to see in the game moving forward is more victories for the playerbase built into the plot than what I'm seeing now, and more IC reasons for characters to feel good about themselves. Ideally, I think it would be good if regardless of how characters react during an event, they get rewarded every two months or so in major ways. ...Even if they end up with a bad endgame, it would be nice for characters to feel like they're accomplishing things along the way, rather than always feeling like they're taking one step forward and two steps back. ("You can access Haven North! No... wait the plants destroyed the tunnels. You can access Haven North again! ...No, wait, there's a killer monster in the tunnel you can't get past now.") ...It's frustrating to have to deal with the same challenges over and over while never gaining ground.
Along those lines, I'd also like more chances for characters to affect major plot points outside of events, on a personal level. Like the spiral obsession. It's been in the game rules since the beginning "if you mess with a computer, you get spirals." ...But couldn't a character have gotten around that somehow by now? Someone like Tony Stark or Fujimaru who are computer hackers in their canons. It would be nice if, with enough attempts and dying in spiral form enough times, they could have gotten far enough into the computer to have accessed an internet network, and maybe used it to contact someone in Haven Central who could be another friendly NPC that wanted to help them. Something like that. Some real, positive change as a reward for trying.
Obviously that's just one example. I mean this in relation to all player plotting. Maybe instead of just finding library clues once a month and not being able to do anything with them, a player could find a walkie talkie near the barrier that Jessica, or Caroline, or some new NPC would answer? Things like that.
...Small complaints about the ability to positively affect the plot aside, I love Haven. I really do. I love the mod and helper mods, I love the playerbase. I have never enjoyed a game as much as this one. Everything is so well-organized and interesting and engaging, everyone is so, so friendly. I love this game and everyone involved on both sides should be proud, because you're all amazing ♥
I AM SORRY THIS COMMENT IS SO LONG oh my god I should have just written it ICly and have blamed Cecil god this is awful what have I become
no subject
Even something as simple as catching a glimpse of Haven Central was really fun and exciting as a player - and I feel a bit guilty since only three players were able to get that excitement (me being one of them). A lot of the things that might be considered positive have mostly been damage control, like the roof and the plants, regaining access to Haven North, reviving Jessica, and so on and so forth. While I understand that Haven is very much affected by the actions of the players and so it might not be fair to sprinkle rewards out of the sky, it's also becoming difficult to see what exactly we can do to achieve something positive or to attain something meaningful from our activities.
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Like, characters suffering is all well and good, but suffering for the sake of suffering isn't the most... enjoyable. If there's at least more outcomes that give the characters the impression that they're moving forward/affecting things at all, that'd be grand.
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also beach episode
+1
I also feel like it's very hard for new characters to get into the swing of things, as events are just moving too quickly for newbies to really find their place. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm having a very hard time getting my new character to find his footing, and I think it's due to all the growing intensity of the events-- I feel like it's hard for me to kind of think quickly about what this new character would do or react to certain situations, especially since it's my first time playing him and I'm still a little shaky about his voice.
Just adding my two cents here-- this is still the best game I've ever been in and I'll never even think of quitting, but this is something that has been bothering me for the last few months, so I figured I'd get it off my chest.
+ 1
no subject
SO YEAH BASICALLY ALL OF THIS. I love the game, and I love the mods!
ACTIVITY CHECK
My biggest issue lies with reduced AC which manages to be incredibly hard and unfair in times when you really need a break. Last month I was on a two week hiatus for school and thus had to do reduced AC, which we know is 12 comments on one thread. And oddly enough, i had the requirements no problem for full AC, but finding a single thread for reduced AC was nearly impossible.
lemme put it in mathematical terms, though. If im NOT on hiatus, i have 30 days to gather three threads with 10 comments each. that gives about three days between each tag that i give - which is really not horrible at all, considering haven is pretty good about keeping threads going, and i would say thats a pretty slow tagging pace.
but if im on hiatus, however, i have about 15 days to gather a 12 comment thread, meaning while i wasnt on hiatus i would have had to have been tagging that one thread basically every single day, and if anyone else is like me, im usually on hiatus like a good few days before i actually make the call because sometimes its hard to know how busy youre going to be until you actually are busy. so basically, reduced AC feels ridiculously unfair, and i feel like it ought to be changed and made more manageable
im also less fond of the two options for AC, feeling that 1post+5comments is a lot easier to do than 30comments over 3threads. someone did mention that posting left you more exposed and it was harder to manage your tag count, but someone could easily make a post get 20 comments tops and pass AC technically without problem. Unlike the reduced AC issues i mentioned above, i'm really not as upset however, but it has bothered me for some time. As for insight on how id like to see that improved, however, im less certain. i guess with this im asking the floor to give thoughts
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12 comments for reduced activity and 30 comments for regular activity both seem pretty reasonable to me. The hard part is the number of threads it has to be split between. If you end up tagging with someone who tags a little slower it can be hard to get the number of comments you between just 1 or 3 threads. Something like reduced activity being 12 comments between 2 threads and regular activity being 30 comments between 3-4 threads might be a little easier to manage, while still maintaining the same amount of comments from one player.
Re: ACTIVITY CHECK
Re: ACTIVITY CHECK
Now I have a couple of threads going, but it's pretty much that I have like... One actually bigger thread and like... Six threads with 3 to 4 tags or something? ...so this month will be messy AC-wise for me because I'm a slow tagger... orz
Re: ACTIVITY CHECK
I mean, I'm never one to have trouble with AC but I went on hiatus once. And when I did and then did activity, I found I could pass the full activity with ease but I could not pass the reduced AC. Which, I think, is exceedingly counter-productive and I had to take a strike despite that.
Quick Edit: I think a more reasonable solution would be 15 comments across two-three threads. Half AC for missing half a month. Seems fair.
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The only solution that comes to mind at the moment is to have a required comment count for the post, say 30 to square up with the three threads. I know that upping requirements is rarely a popular move, but I feel that 30 comments for a post (possibly fewer for a log) is not a lot to ask for when it can be spread amongst any number of threads. It would show activity more than mere existence, and would hopefully stymie abuse of the comparative ease of the post/log option as it stands now.
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and maybe?? a reduction on the logs??? i dont know how others are like with logs, but asking for half as many from logs always seemed excessive to me. if posts are ~20, then logs would be ~14 or something idk spoilers im honestly just using general numbers to make sense
also blue/AC-mods if youre reading this, are you mindful of threaddrops on posts? like if the poster had a large number of ~7-total comment threads, would you ask for another, smaller proof of AC?
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In the end, though, the numbers themselves are not as important to me as the existence of a number.
wheezes
Sooo, let's see. A lot of people have been talking about doom n' gloom burnout on Plurk for a while, and I want to weigh in with what I feel is burning me out. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, and I'm not trying to.
What it comes down to for me is sort of similar to what Frog said above, and it's— a stalling thing, I guess? I honestly feel like, since the anniversary/ghost possession plot back in the end of 2013, the characters haven't made any IC progress. We got a garden that's now basically inaccessible unless you're willing to brave both killer plants and a destroyed building, and we got a housing spiral, and we pissed off some dead kids in the school... But I don't feel like the characters have anything to show for it? Like, plot-wise, it doesn't seem as if anything about the situation has advanced, but simply changed shape (and what a lovely shape it is, praise be spirals etc).
To this end, the back and forth way events play out - Here's a hope spot! Just kidding it's gone now, rinse and repeat - is a huge burnout ICly as well as OOCly. If the characters are going to crash headfirst into torture and disaster every time they try anything or even if they don't, then I as a player am not very motivated to do anything. I never hurt for AC or things to "do" IC, but a lot of my threads feel less like "getting things done" and more like spinning the wheels just talking. This might just be me, considering the character I play is a powerless limp noodle loser
and then there's Aloisbut I feel like it's worth raising as a burnout-type problem I've noticed.Back on the subject of IC progress, however, I've been feeling like lately there has been a... very wide disconnect between player characters and NPCs. Jessica is the only "friendly" NPC who's been around for a while, and she was away for months before the most recent post, while meanwhile we've got a slew of "bad guy" NPCs who fall into the categories of untouchable watcher-lords ie Kite, or useless example-making characters like the scientists. I realize Haven is heavy on the, you know, horror and bad guys aspects, which is great! But it's another nail in the coffin when every new NPC is hostile and the friendly NPCs disappear for long, long stretches. There's also the fact that every hostile NPC is, as per their character traits, cagey with regards to plot information. I get it, but a fuck up by someone like Su Geming would be an easy bone to throw so that PCs aren't left to wait miserably in between events with no idea how to progress to save themselves.
To speak to my point about the plot "stalling," I feel like some of this can be attributed to how big Haven has gotten in recent months. I don't mind the size or speed of the game, myself, but—we are a big fuckin' game, and when plot tidbits are handled in a very small scale, individual way (like a couple characters learning a thing, whatever it may be) it feels, again, like nothing has been accomplished. Library info once a month and the scattered info learned in the store raids are great and I love that players can get plot things in ways outside of huge events, but we are all part of a huge game here and I feel like there has to be a tidier way, OOC as well as IC, to consolidate plot things. If only to give people stepping stones/ideas for player plots and ideas to be made.
I hesitate on this next point because I have no intention to call anyone out for their IC choices or logical plot conclusions for those choices, but in terms of IC progress there is another disconnect and that is: The sheer difference between characters who ally with Yao and those who don't. It feels like, from a player perspective, that the only way to guarantee my character will have ample things to do and affect the plot in a way greater than voting in an OOC poll every few months... is to join Yao. Again, I realize this is part of the game's plot, but it's incredibly discouraging to see things like Yao employees getting things like magical immunity from status effects while the non-Yao characters are never thrown a bone. But this goes back to my point about the NPC imbalance, so I think throwing in an NPC presence that actively helps the characters and sticks around more often would be a step in the right direction.
In terms of events themselves, eh... Speaking for myself still, they've been hit or miss for me. The game's size seems to be impacting the scale/gravity of events we can actually have without it being a sloppy mess and I'd rather see the game continue to operate as smoothly as it has been for my whole almost-a-year (!!!) in Haven, instead of like... falling apart because we overshot an event or something. You know. Something like that.
god look at the tl;dr mess i've become
+1
If the characters were moving slowly, but surely in some vaguely positive direction (like being able to contact Caroline and Jessica more easily, or to use/talk to the ghost NPCs from the destroyed apartments to move forward in a plan to protect themselves), I feel that would do a lot to help burnout on both sides of the IC/OOC fence. But that's just my two cents.
+1
+1
+1
And everyone else has said it in a much more eloquent fashion.
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I'm not gonna add much because you've said it so eloquently, but one of the things I love most about this game is that everyone gets to be in the spotlight at least once in terms of learning something or making headway. I use the "rescuing Jessica from the labs" thread as an example-- that was a great way to allow a bunch of characters to really be in the limelight and do some good in Haven, and although the costs were high and it was a bittersweet victory, it was still a victory, and the characters were able to come back satisfied that they actually accomplished something.
More AC thoughts
I keep finding that tags I do at 10pm (EST) at first seem to be from the last day of the current month, as intended, only to abruptly go forward in time somehow and become after 12am retroactively. It's discouraging and I keep forgetting about it. For people tagging at 9 and 8pm in other parts of the country, it must be even MORE frustrating. Since this is a game where the date of the individual tags, and not the date of the post, are what's used to determine AC...
Furthermore, I would like to put in a vote for the AC to take place earlier than it currently does -- say, seven days before the end of the month, instead of on the first day of the new month.
Again, obviously people would be up to date on AC by that late in the month, but the fact is that the way the AC works right now, it's already too late to do anything to save yourself when you go to count your tags for what might very well be the first time.
+1
anyway AC starting seven days early sounds like a great idea to me; its kind of like a buffer period where people who are a little short arent caught with their shorts down and can get the necessary requirements
and having it set up earlier and during the AC period seems like it would also help with the issue of tagging from different timezones - which i handt even considered! because then tags arent so retroactive and we can keep track more easily.
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And kind of top it off with the fact that I feel like sometimes the events and their aftermath can be really unforgiving. You obviously can't please everyone all the time with every plot, which is fine! But using the last event as an example, there was just way too much happening. I had no plans in partaking in any major part of the event, as it wasn't my cup of tea with what character plans I wanted to make for the future, but the aftermath of the torture kind of made a mess of that and didn't really give many people a chance to opt out unless they locked themselves in their room.
It felt a bit imbalanced to have that many characters hauled off for torture, and then returned to Haven proper with such a wide variety of after-effects that my head was spinning trying to figure out who was doing what. There were brainwashed people, meteors? titans? zombies? I don't even know what else, but there was just too much in that regard, and it was incredibly overwhelming to figure out what my characters would and wouldn't know/how they would be affected, but also what was going on with castmates and CR. Obviously, some of that boils down to communication, but with the comms so flooded with ooc and ic posts alike, wading through it was really difficult. I'm all for torture and aftermath, but it felt really disorganized to me and I was a bit off-put by doing anything until the following intro log where I could kind of "clean slate" and figure out where my characters stood from there. That could just be me, but I felt like there could have been some limits and better organized efforts for it, and I fear for future events taking a similar, overwhelming path.
Which partially brings me to a second point about Activity Check. I largely don't have a problem with it, and usually make it with ease. But I think the growth of the game may necessitate some changes to the implementation. With more players/characters, things are general busier, but sometimes that means people's speeds (my own included!) take the hit. There's a higher volume of threads, and while logs move fast, it seems more because of the volume than individual tag output. In turn, I think it can be difficult, circumstances permitting, to get all of AC within 3 threads. All it takes is one person moving at a slower pace and another not wanting to spread themselves too thin to suddenly be one or two comments short for AC. It seems a bit unfair to be penalized with a warning list for that, because sometimes things just don't work out as planned. I don't think it needs to be lowered to under 30 comments, but being able to have a fourth thread without issue wouldn't be a terrible idea. I kind of feel like having that strict a thread requirement (and more so for hiatuses) kind of pushes people to make posts/logs at the last minute since the post/log+5 comments is a lot easier to skate by with. AC is the sort of issue I can go either way on, but may be something to keep in mind.
I love this game and want it to well, but sometimes these things can really tug at my motivation. I'm not much of a fan of feeling like I have to partake in events all the time, or that I have to be super focused on making sure the AC reqs are met, since it should come naturally with being active, rather that being active to specifically make AC. I do agree with others about the issues of the non-Yao employees never catching a break and how we stagnated, progress wise. But overall, I love the events and plot, and I love the playerbase, and the modding pretty much always super solid, so I hope that things can get squared away in a manner that's beneficial for mods and players alike.
+1
What I'd prefer is something more subtle honestly, but it's something to consider if such a plot does happen again.
no subject
To start off, like everyone above, I love the shit out of this game. I only this last month and a half came back after almost a year gone, but I was here for the first ~8 months of the game before life went crazy and it was definitely my home game. It was the best game I'd been in, for a number of reasons it would take much too long to list. But now I'm back and while games change in a big way over that kind of timespan, I feel like these particular things... didn't need to?
Firstly - god, how do I put this? I feel like this ties into what so many people above are saying re: making positive progress, but I got back in last month and was kind of surprised by how many more IC restrictions there were. The setting is much smaller, almost all of the interesting locations are too dangerous to even touch, and you can't even sleep over at a friend's apartment block without serious physical consequences. I feel like it's harder nowadays for the playerbase to find things to do in the off-time between plots, because while some characters might team up and do X and Y, others are prone to exploring or doing environmental stuff which isn't possible anymore? Idk, I'm not being very articulate here I feel like. The TL;DR of this paragraph is like... there are so many more IC restrictions nowadays without any kind of trade-off in things to do elsewise? But that might just be me, so take it with a grain of salt.
My second thing is (and I have no idea how long it's been like this, but) as much as I love all of the shit Yao is doing, the vaccines coming in and the experiments being done, I really kind of miss the events Haven used to have. The ones coming to mind are the psychological horror events like the mindfuck tattoos all over their bodies, or the spiral-shaped body displays in the middle of public locations. More widespread stuff that was really easy for anyone to get involved in. Because I feel like everyone above me was correct in that the people working for Yao get to do so, so much more than those who aren't. The events (at least the ones I've been here for) have kind of been the Yao + Yao Recruits Show with the non-Yao PCs as expendable extras. I'm not sure what I'd suggest to fix this, and as short as I've been back, I'd be in no place to suggest any kind of plotting changes anyway. It's just something to think about, I guess? Maybe some others who've spent more time here in the last year or so know what I mean and can address this better.
Like I said, you guys have always been the most amazing mod team I've had the pleasure of playing under. It's super awesome of you to even put this up, when most mod groups would've hand-waved concerns toward the Suggestions post.
+1
I'm with you on the events too. IME stuff like the nightmare bubble event and the various times ghost NPCs come in and fuck shit up are good events where people can go a little more wild than sitting back and getting tortured again.
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I like the torture events! I think reading the threads is interesting, I like seeing the plurks about them, I like seeing how exactly characters are... gotten at? Gotten inside their heads? I'm not sure how exactly to put it, but hopefully that makes sense. I recall being here before for another torture event, and I thought that was great too.
What I wasn't a big fan of this event was all of the aftermath. And I want to be clear that it's not about any one person's specific thing, so much as all of the things happening at once. By my count, there were three supernatural beings, two zombie-esque invasions, and one Titan, plus a bunch of other stuff, and I think that with the torture things - I get that it's likely to set people off; both of my characters are likely to be triggered such that one might intentionally set off powers, and the other would probably go crazy.
But having everyone doing their stuff afterwards has two effects:
One, it sort of lessens the impact of people's unique things, which sucks. I know that if I had Asbel unleash Lambda, or Yukki go full on crazy yandere, that I would want it to be a thing, and again, I'm not blaming anyone for wanting to do cool shit with their character. But when everyone else is also having their things happen, it's difficult for one thing to have much impact, to be... special, I guess.
Two, it kinda results in burnout for players! It's a thing I've talked about with a few other players as well, but when there's that much stuff that my character should be responding to - Asbel should be going to fight monsters, Asbel should be dealing with zombie hordes, etc, etc. - it gets to the point where I feel obligated to tag all of these things and I just sort of run out of care because I want to get involved but I don't want to get involved in all of these things and I just run out of energy with all the things that are around.
I think that in the future, I'd definitely like to see some... limits, I guess, on post-torture things, or maybe some delayed effects? Something like that? Because as much as I like the torture logs, I don't think it's fair to players who want to have their characters get set off, because their special things are less special - and I don't think it's fair to people who want to respond to those things, really.
no subject
Good things: Plotty, intense, friendly and easy to approach mods, a great playerbase and there's always something to do.
Admittedly I ended up hiatusing because there might just be too many things to do, regardless of whether they're high-intensity like experiments + Verdugo or something as chill as the volunteer thing. I enjoyed them, mind you, but then on top of that were experiment aftereffects, which while yes there's like two events total, it felt like a billion and I just had to step back, squint and take a break because it felt like too much too fast.
I have no problem with the intensity and the downward curve of their IC situation, but this may also be because I'm still considerably new compared to plenty of players, but not so new that I'd get overwhelmed. I love the negativity and I like the struggle-- Right now, that's what I'm looking for, but for those who have been here a while, I'm pretty sure it's taxing and discouraging, and a lot of hiatuses and drops I've seen were long-time players getting completely burnt out, especially given ICly, it seems like every reward they got minus plumbing/electricity has been snatched away again.
My problem was the frequency, and how it felt like in trying to accommodate people, you kind of tipped the bucket and poured it out on everyone. Some loved it, others got soaked too much and just want to dry off, and some just drowned.
I imagine that something like what another game I used to play does would be beneficial, in which the people experimented on is done monthly/every other month with a character cap, no two characters from the same mun. You get less characters to worry about, and you can still play out the type of aftermath that is unique to each character without making it overlap so badly that none of them come off special.
AC-wise, I gotta agree that I never understood why all 12 comments have to be from the same thread. Logically, that means that A can tag B 10 times in a month, and same for C and D. However, for half a month, C & D don't count and then you gotta pressure B to help you get 12, which is more than what would be the minimum you ask of B for half the time. 15 comments split into 3 threads is a lot easier to do than 12 comments for one thread especially if your reason for going on hiatus is because you have no time to tag in the first place. This is especially a problem if you were hiatused the first half of the month, rather than the second.
no subject
Mentioned above by others so I'm really just echoing at this point, but in-between options for non-Yao players to become proactive would be excellent. Threading with Jessica (my first time with these npcs and it's been a blast) got me thinking about rebel groups and how one might naturally form inside of Haven, and I think that some characters are already whispering about it, though I may be mistaken. Combining dire consequences for the people willing to risk it with small victories that count for something would be pretty sweet, imo. An overall evening out between the different factions seems to be the most desirable solution to burnout/potential burnout at this point. I think this could easily be accomplished ic with characters doing most of the heavy lifting if an incentive exists for them, whether this is a fleeting reward or managing to slam back against Yao in some way.
That said, after oh so helpfully... repeating after gamemates, I want to add in my adoration of the game. I'm having an amazing time integrating myself in with a fantastic playerbase and mod atmosphere. Haven is quickly becoming my home and I look forward to growing with it, to all that it may become. I think (not completely sure uh) this is the first How's the Game post I've been participant to and it stands out to me as an example of good conduct from mature, helpful players. Keep on keeping on, Haven.
+1
What I really enjoy about Haven and the environment is that things are hard, they are raw and they're intense and that's awesome! It's a bad situation and it's not supposed to be slice of life. It's supposed to be hard and feel like a struggle and I find that immensely appealing. I enjoyed the total lack of things working when I first joined (waking up in a pile of people? that was hilarious!) and the powers being down in the garden (although I can see why it might be frustrating if it's really too overpopulated by monsters that can instantly kill you, but I would hope that sort of thing would spur more working-together efforts to try and find growable food and fruits). I don't mind the difficulties involved in Haven North being blocked off - they're in a bad situation, if they can just truck along down there whenever they want to read/write/get meat or whatever, it starts to feel a little cheap.
I loved following the torture plots, but I will agree that since so many people signed up for them, there was so much aftermath that it was hard to keep up with everyone as individuals. CR opportunities could have been missed out on because a huge portion of the characters were dealing with their trauma on top of someone elses on top of someone elses, so that aspect can seem overwhelming.
On the other hand, perhaps so much people showing up to be tortured wasn't expected, because a lot of people wanted an opportunity to get into the fun. Maybe with the volume of the game you might want to consider caps on those kind of specific torture sessions at least as far as how aftermath will be experienced there and what it will affect?
And I will agree that there should be opportunities for non-Yao to be productive in their own ways, like finding other ways to learn more about the plot and such, or even a way to manage small victories (because I can totally understand putting so much time and effort into something and it feeling fruitless and that can be very draining -- so the incentive to continue trying to survive is important here). They really don't know what they're up against here and letting them think they have a chance - especially in the wake of what happened with Geming - might go a longer way until Kite pulls the rug out from under them again.
not slice of life but.... more variety, i guess?
The problem isn't the environment or the challenges characters face, it's the lack of rewards. Imagine Symphonia where every time Sheena got a summon spirit, she was kidnapped and the spirit taken away, and you had to go back to the same dungeon to get the same summon spirit back again before you could go to the next dungeon.
and you use a thunder sword on Volt like an idiot. At first you might not mind it, but it gets tedious after a while. No matter how much fun the dungeons or the fights are, the redundancy for a lack of forward momentum makes it not the kind of game you want to play.So I want to see MORE character torture myself. More hardships for characters to deal with.
Although Cecil's doing fine in that department, thanks YaoClem's player mentioned evil tattoos were a thing once and I'm like hell yes????? There just needs to be a forward momentum to the plot, or what's the point in playing the game? Even I can only play tetris for so many hours, and I fucking love tetris.no subject
I really would like to see more indirect psychological abuse.
also Cecil brings it on himself+1
sobYou have no idea how sad I am that I missed that event, and the nightmare bubbles, and the ghost possession, and kite round 1, and all these other great events I keep learning about
I mean the garden was good but
psychological horror, tho.
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I'm going to respond to all of the points made (or the main ones) here, as there are so many comments/suggestions that information might get lost if I replied to each individually. I'm going to start by thanking everyone for their suggestions and, more so, for the detail involved in them because it's really helped me to see what's going on.
AC Concerns
Firstly, half AC being changed to 15 comments over two threads, to make it a more equal "half" of the whole - This is something the whole mod team are in agreement with, and think is a good idea. We have no problems with implementing this in the near future when everything is fully ironed out.
It's unlikely other aspects of AC will change, as we feel that it's a mostly fair and smooth system, however, the other points raised are still in discussion and we're not ruling them out. We do we still wish to leave having a post as an option, and it could get complicated with a fair number of comments to demand on a post, so this and other suggestions (such as thirty comments over four threads) are in discussion, but may not be implemented. A further post on any AC changes will go up at some point later in the week once all details have been ironed out.
Re: The suggestion that the post go up seven days in advance, we apologize but we do not feel this is workable. The main reason for this is that AC is at the same time every month and up for five days, and so a seven day extra warning/grace period seems unnecessary. It may also encourage a last minute scramble for AC in the final week, rather than a continuous AC over the whole month.
Event/Plot direction and burn out
I especially thank all of you who have given such detailed explanations of what exactly has been the cause of some burn out, as it really has helped me gain a perspective on it and will certainly help me be able to plan events that hopefully alleviate this while still keeping in tone with the game.
As per some suggestions or ideas up above, it can be workable for the characters to get in contact with the rebels again, and in doing so, perhaps gain some benefits similar to those that the Yao Corp give out to their employees. One of the comments that made the most impact to me in understanding what exactly was going wrong, was "small victories that immediately become failures" being draining. I hadn't realized this was a pattern that the game/I was falling into, and I will certainly be more mindful of it in the future.
As regards to the smaller plot points being given out in fractured pieces to individuals, this has honestly been based on who has sent a PM to the mod account to request details/say that have been researching. While I feel this should still continue, I am willing to make a mod post either once a month, or once every other month, with a small list of plot clues which could be found by multiple people in order to give a springboard into the meta plot.
I hope this response helps to outline what can and can't be altered, and the mod standpoint on that. And I welcome any further questions or comments.
Thank you!
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so what you're saying is no beach episode
don't deprive Haven of the horror that is Kite in a a speedo blue
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THE TRUE HORROR OF HAVEN REVEALS ITSELF
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Or even a post where people can post what their characters might be looking for specifically, and someone can respond with what they'd find and so on and so forth. I think we did something like that for the anniversary plot for the characters who were searching through the books in the bunker and that was pretty cool!
But yeah! Thanks for taking these concerns into consideration. I know for me, I definitely want for all these things that we put our characters through to have some kind of outcome or victory or something at all. So then, there's meaning to it rather than putting characters through things just cause we can.
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That would be the Verdugo. I understand that there's a need to create a tough and powerful monster on par with PH to impact the populace, so that's not an issue- what was the issue was that it has a very specific weakness that's almost impossible to find without blatantly infomodding since most ice magic users wouldn't be able to actually create temperatures as cold as what was necessary. This has some ties into what was mentioned earlier re: Frustration at moving forward and moving two steps backwards, and the only thing I can suggest if there's ever another plot point involving monsters is to use something that's very tough but that also has more general weaknesses.
Basically, it's just making sure that bits of the plot don't affect player plots too adversely since we're now stuck on the idea of defeating Verdugo and only a few people can safely get to Haven North, which I think plays a part in people feeling burnt-out since that was one of the few
onlyplaces to find entertainment!